Seneca was a Roman highborn who studied law before launching a successful career as a statesman. He escaped execution twice by order of Roman emperors, but did have to endure an exile to Corsica. He was recalled back to tutor Nero and was said to be responsible for his most temperate side before the emperor went fully mad. A plot to kill Nero was uncovered and Seneca was wrongly included in the ensuing purge. He was ordered to commit suicide, which he did by cutting his wrists.
The amount of wealth he accumulated made him one of the richest men of his times, leading some of his modern-day critics to wonder how stoic he really was. They argue that he did not practice what he preached and lived in ravishing opulence that was a direct contradiction to the philosophy he taught. Should we place more weight to his teachings above that of other stoics such as Epictetus, who did practice what he preached? That’s a hard question to answer, but one does pick up on him expounding on all the lessons he learned after living in vice. When thinking of Seneca, the following quote comes to my mind: “The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom.” Whether he lived ideally or not, Seneca’s wisdom can help us greatly today.
The philosophy of Stoicism can be summed up in the Serenity prayer, devised by American theologian Reinhold Niebuhr, who must’ve been familiar with stoicism.
God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.
I’ll let Seneca explain stoicism further through his own words below.
What is stoicism?
Only the wise man is content with what is his. All foolishness suffers the burden of dissatisfaction with itself.
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It is man’s duty to live in conformity with the divine will, and this means, firstly, bringing his life into line with ‘nature’s laws’, and secondly, resigning himself completely and uncomplainingly to whatever fate may send him. Only by living thus, and not setting too high a value on things which can at any moment be taken away from him, can he discover that true, unshakeable peace and contentment to which ambition, luxury and above all avarice are among the greatest obstacles.
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The place one’s in, though, doesn’t make any contribution to peace of mind: it’s the spirit that makes everything agreeable to oneself. I’ve seen for myself people sunk in gloom in cheerful and delightful country houses, and people in completely secluded surroundings who looked as if they were run off their feet.
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…cling tooth and nail to the following rule: not to give in to adversity, never to trust prosperity, and always take full note of fortune’s habit of behaving just as she pleases, treating her as if she were actually going to do everything it is in her power to do.
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It is essential to make oneself used to putting up with a little. Even the wealthy and the well provided are continually met and frustrated by difficult times and situations. It is in no man’s power to have whatever he wants; but he has it in his power not to wish for what he hasn’t got, and cheerfully make the most of the things that do come his way. And a stomach firmly under control, one that will put up with hard usage, marks a considerable step towards independence.
Travel
To be everywhere is to be nowhere. People who spend their whole life travelling abroad end up having plenty of places where they can find hospitality but no real friendships. The same must be the case with people who never set about acquiring an intimate acquaintanceship with any one great writer, but skip from one to another, paying flying visits to them all. Food that is vomited up as soon as it is eaten is not assimilated into the body and does not do one any good; nothing hinders a cure so much as frequent changes of treatment; a wound will not heal over if it is being made the subject of experiments with different ointments; a plant which is frequently moved never grows strong.
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When a person is following a track, there is an eventual end to it somewhere, but with wandering at large there is no limit. So give up pointless, empty journeys, and whenever you want to know whether the desire aroused in you by something you are pursuing is natural or quite unseeing, ask yourself whether it is capable of coming to rest at any point; if after going a long way there is always something remaining farther away, be sure it is not something natural.
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How can novelty of surroundings abroad and becoming acquainted with foreign scenes or cities be of any help? All that dashing about turns out to be quite futile. And if you want to know why all this running away cannot help you, the answer is simply this: you are running away in your own company. You have to lay aside the load on your spirit. Until you do that, nowhere will satisfy you.
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What good has travel of itself ever been able to do anyone? It has never acted as a check on pleasure or a restraining influence on desires; it has never controlled the temper of an angry man or quelled the reckless impulses of a lover; never in fact has it rid the personality of a fault. It has not granted us the gift of judgement, it has not put an end to mistaken attitudes. All it has ever done is distract us for a little while, through the novelty of our surroundings, like children fascinated by something they haven’t come across before.
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…travel won’t make a better or saner man of you. For this we must spend time in study and in the writings of wise men, to learn the truths that have emerged from their researches, and carry on the search ourselves for the answers that have not yet been discovered. This is the way to liberate the spirit that still needs to be rescued from its miserable state of slavery.
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All this hurrying from place to place won’t bring you any relief, for you’re traveling in the company of your own emotions, followed by your troubles all the way. If only they were really following you! They’d be farther away from you: as it is they’re not at your back, but on it! That’s why they weigh you down with just the same uncomfortable chafing wherever you are. It’s medicine, not a particular part of the world, that a person needs if he’s ill. Suppose someone has broken his leg or dislocated a joint; he doesn’t get into a carriage or board a ship: he calls in a doctor to have the fracture set or the dislocation reduced. Well then, when a person’s spirit is wrenched or broken at so many points, do you imagine that it can be put right by a change of scenery, that that sort of trouble isn’t so serious that it can’t be cured by an outing?
Anxiety
Fear keeps pace with hope. Nor does their so moving together surprise me; both belong to a mind in suspense, to a mind in a state of anxiety through looking into the future. Both are mainly due to projecting our thoughts far ahead of us instead of adapting ourselves to the present. Thus it is that foresight, the great blessing humanity has been given, is transformed into a curse.
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Think how often towns in Asia or in Greece have fallen at a single earth tremor, how many villages in Syria or Macedonia have been engulfed, how often this form of disaster has wrought devastation in Cyprus, how often Paphos has tumbled about itself! Time and again we hear the news of the annihilation of a whole city, and how small a fraction of mankind are we who hear such news thus often! So let us face up to the blows of circumstance and be aware that whatever happens is never as serious as [worry] makes it out to be.
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For the only safe harbour in this life’s tossing, troubled sea is to refuse to be bothered about what the future will bring and to stand ready and confident, squaring the breast to take without skulking or flinching whatever fortune hurls at us.
The crowd
Associating with people in large numbers is actually harmful: there is not one of them that will not make some vice or other attractive to us, or leave us carrying the imprint of it or bedaubed all unawares with it. And inevitably enough, the larger the size of the crowd we mingle with, the greater the danger. But nothing is as ruinous to the character as sitting away one’s time at a show—for it is then, through the medium of entertainment, that vices creep into one with more than usual ease. What do you take me to mean? That I go home more selfish, more self-seeking and more self-indulgent? Yes, and what is more, a person crueler and less humane through having been in contact with human beings.
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When a mind is impressionable and has none too firm a hold on what is right, it must be rescued from the crowd: it is so easy for it to go over to the majority. A Socrates, a Cato or a Laelius might have been shaken in his principles by a multitude of any of us, even as we perfect our personality’s adjustment, to withstand the onset of vices when they come with such a mighty following. A single example of extravagance or greed does a lot of harm—an intimate who leads a pampered life gradually makes one soft and flabby; a wealthy neighbour provokes cravings in one; a companion with a malicious nature tends to rub off some of his rust even on someone of an innocent and open-hearted nature—what then do you imagine the effect on a person’s character is when the assault comes from the world at large.
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The many speak highly of you, but have you really any grounds for satisfaction with yourself if you are the kind of person the many understand? Your merits should not be outward facing.
Friendship
…a person who starts being friends with you because it pays him will similarly cease to be friends because it pays him to do so. If there is anything in a particular friendship that attracts a man other than the friendship itself, the attraction of some reward or other will counterbalance that of the friendship. What is my object in making a friend? To have someone to be able to die for, someone I may follow into exile, someone for whose life I may put myself up as security and pay the price as well. The thing you describe is not friendship but a business deal, looking to the likely consequences, with advantage as its goal.
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Self-contented as [a man] is, then, he does need friends—and wants as many of them as possible—but not to enable him to lead a happy life; this he will have even without friends. The supreme ideal does not call for any external aids. It is home-grown, wholly self-developed. Once it starts looking outside itself for any part of itself it is on the way to be dominated by fortune.
Misfortune
It is in times of security that the spirit should be preparing itself to deal with difficult times; while fortune is bestowing favours on it then is the time for it to be strengthened against her rebuffs. In the midst of peace the soldier carries out manoeuvres, throws up earthworks against a non-existent enemy and tires himself out with unnecessary toil in order to be equal to it when it is necessary. If you want a man to keep his head when the crisis comes you must give him some training before it comes. This was the aim of the men who once every month pretended they were poor, bringing themselves face to face with want, to prevent their ever being terrified by a situation which they had frequently rehearsed.
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Sickness assails those leading the most sensible lives, tuberculosis those with the strongest constitutions, retribution the utterly guiltless, violence the most secluded. Misfortune has a way of choosing some unprecedented means or other of impressing its power on those who might be said to have forgotten it. A single day strews in ruins all that was raised by a train of construction extending over a long span of time and involving a great number of separate works and a great deal of favour on the part of heaven. To say a ‘day’, indeed, is to put too much of a brake on the calamities that hasten down upon us: an hour, an instant of time, suffices for the overthrow of empires.
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Nothing is durable, whether for an individual or for a society; the destinies of men and cities alike sweep onwards. Terror strikes amid the most tranquil surroundings, and without any disturbance in the background to give rise to them calamities spring from the least expected quarter. States which stood firm through civil war as well as wars external collapse without a hand being raised against them. How few nations have made of their prosperity a lasting thing! This is why we need to envisage every possibility and to strengthen the spirit to deal with the things which may conceivable come about. Rehearse them in your mind: exile, torture, war, shipwreck. Misfortune may snatch you away from your country, or your country away from you, may banish you into some wilderness—these very surroundings in which the masses suffocate may become a wilderness.
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It must come to see that there is nothing fortune will shrink from, that she wields the same authority over emperor and empire alike and the same power over cities as over men. There’s no ground for resentment in all this. We’ve entered into a world in which these are the terms life is lived on—if you’re satisfied with that, submit to them, if you’re not, get out, whatever way you please. Resent a thing by all means if it represents an injustice decreed against yourself personally; but if this same constraint is binding on the lowest and the highest alike, then make your peace again with destiny, the destiny that unravels all ties.
Death
‘Rehearse death.’ To say this is to tell a person to rehearse his freedom. A person who has learned how to die has unlearned how to be a slave. He is above, or at any rate beyond the reach of, all political powers. What are prisons, warders, bars to him? He has an open door. There is but one chain holding us in fetters, and that is our love of life. There is no need to cast this love out altogether, but it does need to be lessened somewhat so that, in the event of circumstances ever demanding this, nothing may stand in the way of our being prepared to do at once what we must do at some time or other.
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An ordinary journey will be incomplete if you come to a stop in the middle of it, or anywhere short of your destination, but life is never incomplete if it is an honourable one. At whatever point your leave life, if you leave it in the right way, it is a whole.
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You want to live—but do you know how to live? You are scared of dying—and, tell me, is the kind of life you lead really any different from being dead. Caligula was once passing a column of captives on the Latin Road when one of them, with a hoary old beard reaching down his breast, begged to be put to death. ‘So,’ replied Caligula, ‘you are alive, then, as you are?’ That is the answer to give to people to whom death would actually come as a release.
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‘But I want to live because of all the worthy activities I’m engaged in. I’m performing life’s duties conscientiously and energetically and I’m reluctant to leave them undone.’ Come now, surely you know that dying is also one of life’s duties? You’re leaving no duty undone, for there’s no fixed number of duties laid down which you’re supposed to complete. Every life without exception is a short one.
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To lose someone you love is something you’ll regard as the hardest of all blows to bear, while all the time this will be as silly as crying because the leaves fall from the beautiful trees that add to the charm of your home. Preserve a sense of proportion in your attitude to everything that pleases you, and make the most of them while they are at their best.
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As it is with a play, so it is with life—what matters is not how long the acting lasts, but how good it is. It is not important at what point you stop. Stop wherever you will—only make sure that you round it off with a good ending.
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One thing I know: all the works of mortal man lie under sentence of mortality; we live among things that are destined to perish.
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We’re born unequal, we die equal. And my words apply as much to cities as to those who live in them.
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…no one has power over us when death is within our own power.
Treatment of others
…treat your inferiors in the way in which you would like to be treated by your own superiors. And whenever it strikes you how much power you have over your slave, let it also strike you that your own master has just as much power over you. ‘I haven’t got a master,’ you say. You’re young yet; there’s always the chance that you’ll have one.
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…no one has been able to strike terror into others and at the same time enjoy peace of mind himself.
Slavery
‘He’s a slave.’ But he may have the spirit of a free man. ‘He’s a slave.” But is that really to count against him. Show me a man who isn’t a slave; one is a slave to sex, another to money, another to ambition; all are slaves to hope or fear. I could show you a man who has been a Consul who is a slave to his ‘little old woman’, a millionaire who is the slave of a little girl in domestic service. I could show you some highly aristocratic young men who are utter slaves to stage artistes. And there’s no state of slavery more disgraceful than one which is self-imposed.
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For men in a state of freedom had thatch for their shelter, while slavery dwells beneath marble and gold.
Failure
Why does no one admit his failings? Because he’s still deep in them. It’s the person who’s awakened who recounts his dream, and acknowledging one’s failings is a sign of health. So let us rouse ourselves, so that we may be able to demonstrate our errors.
Body
I am too great, was born to too great a destiny to be my body’s slave. So far as I am concerned that body is nothing more or less than a fetter on my freedom. I place it squarely in the path of fortune, letting her expend her onslaught on it, not allowing any blow to get through it to my actual self. For that body is all that is vulnerable about me: within this dwelling so liable to injury there lives a spirit that is free.
Pleasure seeking
We are attracted by wealth, pleasures, good looks, political advancement and various other welcoming and enticing prospects: we are repelled by exertion, death, pain, disgrace and limited means. It follows that we need to train ourselves not to crave for the former and not to be afraid of the latter. Let us fight the battle the other way round—retreat from the things that attract us and rouse ourselves to meet the things that actually attack us.
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The path that leads to pleasures is the downward one: the upward climb is the one that takes us to rugged and difficult ground. Here let us throw our bodies forward, in the other direction rein them back.
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…any life must seem short to people who measure it in terms of pleasures which through their empty nature are incapable of completeness.
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The things that are essential are acquired with little bother; it is the luxuries that call for toil and effort.
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How nice it is to have outworn one’s desires and left them behind!
Virtue
…virtue only comes to a character which has been thoroughly schooled and trained and brought to a pitch of perfection by unremitting practice. We are born for it, but not with it. And even in the best of people, until you cultivate it there is only the material for virtue, not virtue itself.
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Virtue has to be learnt. Pleasure is a poor and petty thing. No value should be set on it: it’s something we share with dumb animals—the minutest, most insignificant creatures scutter after it.
Happiness and suffering
A man is as unhappy as he has convinced himself he is. And complaining away about one’s sufferings after they are over (you know the kind of language: ‘No one had ever been in such a bad state. The torments and hardships I endured! No one thought I would recover. The number of times I was given up for lost by the family! The number of times I was despaired of by the doctors! A man on the rack isn’t torn with pain the way I was’ is something I think should be banned. Even if all this is true, it is past history. What’s the good of dragging up sufferings which are over, of being unhappy now just because you were then? What is more, doesn’t everyone add a good deal to his tale of hardships and deceive himself as well in the matter?
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Things will get thrown at you and things will hit you. Life’s no soft affair. It’s a long road you’ve started on: you can’t but expect to have slips and knocks and falls, and get tired, and openly wish—a lie—for death. At one place you will part from a companion, at another bury one, and be afraid of one at another. These are the kind of things you’ll come up against all this rugged journey.
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One can do nothing better than endure what cannot be cured and attend uncomplainingly the God at whose instance all things come about. It is a poor soldier that follows his commander grumbling. So let us receive our orders readily and cheerfully, and not desert the ranks along the march—the march of this glorious fabric of creation in which everything we shall suffer is a strand.
Life’s path
We therefore should keep to the path which nature has mapped out for us and never diverge from it. For those who follow nature everything is easy and straightforward, whereas for those who fight against her life is just like rowing against the stream.
Seneca’s philosophy not only prepares you for the hardships you will receive in life, but also death itself. When misfortune happens to you, instead of being angry or upset, you should ask yourself the following: “Is there anything about this outcome that is within my control to change?” If there is nothing, you must take the result with equanimity. Otherwise you must get to work.
Stoicism removes the fear (and hope) of your anxious thoughts about the future and allows you to accept the inevitable hardships and final end that all humans face. It does this by building up your mental fortitude to accept the present moment and the randomness of the next hour, whether it is one of pleasure or pain. Therefore it is a philosophy of acceptance, no matter who you are and where you are in life. At the same time, it gives you space to desire the finer things in life and work towards getting them, with the understanding that those things are part of a journey of a virtuous life instead of the final destination.
Whether you accept stoicism or not will depend on your individual character. It matches mine quite well, as I have come to a handful of stoic conclusions through my pursuit of hedonistic excess, and so it is the principal philosophy that I choose to live life by. It should be no surprise that this book is one of the most valuable in my library. Highly recommended.
Read More: “Letters From A Stoic” on Amazon
The most healthy&human of all moralists. Always best to read him apart or unbounded by an -ism. Great write-up, though.
This article is informative and well-organized. Never read Seneca before so thanks for the short intro.
I have mixed opinions about the writings on travel posted above.
All the quotes have a cautionary view on the purpose of travel. Did Seneca really not think there was anything of value to be learned through travel?
Seems to me that many people will always have an innate need to leave their home and explore. To discourage that drive because “no matter where you go there you are” doesn’t seem quite right.
It’s like anything else, too much of a good thing is a bad thing. I spent over ten years with travel as my main hobby, and it really does help make a person grow. But eventually diminishing returns kick in, and my focus is elsewhere now.
Some people use travel as a means of escape while others use drugs, alcohol, or consumerism. I think Seneca is addressing that point. Carting your personal baggage around the world and ending up right where you started (or worse off) is of no benefit to anyone, but in many case its being sold as a way to “find yourself” or “broaden your horizons” which is hardly the case.
As a middle aged man, I see america as a really sick country. Physically, spiritually, morally and financially. What it desperately needs are men with vision and discipline who have the guts and determination to work on helping to rebuild a culture that is rotten. To be salt and light if you will in the midst of darkness. it can be done. However, it will only happen via decentralization with each individual man acting as a seed for change. Eventually others who want what is good will be drawn in and it becomes a positive force – albeit a local one. Multiply these local forces across the nation and it becomes a movement. At that time it will be like an avalanche – unstoppable. I see the beginning of this change taking place now. The full fruition however may not be witnessed in my lifetime though. The old paradigm has failed and is headed the way of the dodo bird, but those in power continue as if there will be another 1000 years of it. Meanwhile underneath a new current has formed that is going in the opposite direction to what is in place now. The powers in place will try and stop it, but it will be like trying to stop the wind from blowing. Futile gestures.These are truly interesting times
Good points. We went through this period of “rot” another time (during The Great Depression). These hard times are needed to balance out the state of affairs.
We needed the financial collapse of 2008 (not the rescue) to show how things are fucked up and what needs to be fixed. If people never go through those hard times, then they’ll never appreciate what they have (or had).
I believe this is an important point that Seneca alludes to in his writings.
I agree with your words above, and see this new current taking shape in people that I talk to on a near daily basis. I do not necessarily believe i will see its completion in my lifetime either; but it gives me hope that my children won’t just be better off, but will be men with vision and discipline who have the guts and determination to work on helping to rebuild a culture that is rotten. I am doing my part, but it will take them and their generation that completes this undertaking.
Well said.
It is my belief that our nation cannot endure another Great Depression in the same manner as we our nation did from the late 29 – 41.
I say this because I believe the moral and ethical fiber the citizens had then no longer remains or is in very short supply. Nor do we have the same resourcefulness on a broad scale individual level that we once had. Our countrymen / women are too quick to look to someone else for help, instead of meeting a challenge head on, we are a very self-centered nation. Much of my belief stems from working in an ER for close to 10 years now.
“As a middle aged man, I see america as a really sick country. Physically, spiritually, morally and financially.”
Financially? Have you ever been to Somalia or to most of the rest of world?
Yes I have.. I give the US about 5 years and financially we will be on par with them. We are a “ptomken village” economy. Our wealth is illusory and built upon a fiat money system that when it goes it will be like watching videos of a massive avalanche. The speed of implosion and destruction in its wake will be breathtaking in intensity.
Ask yourself, how many people do you know – no matter how much money they have, are able to grow, store and prepare their own food? Our entire food system in this country has as much strength to withstand a major economic shock as a spider web in the midst of a Category 5 hurricane. When people are starving they will realize how fuckn poor they really are
I take it as travel for travels sake, travel to entertain, travel to relieve boredom, travel to just be somewhere else, travel so you can say to people I have been here, here and here…….this is what Seneca is talking about…
For that very reason when my mother and aunt took me to Europe and wanted their picture taken in front of every symbolic place, I’d take their picture with them in the very lower end to almost not show them in it. Until this day they talk about that without understanding all that Seneca illuminates about travel. I don’t travel because I don’t have the time, energy, and mind frame to do it meaningfully.
The greatest contentment you can hope to have is to have everyone you love under one roof, happy together and healthy.
Perhaps Seneca was not familiar with the notion of complete knowledge assimilation. For example, while you travel you suddenly realize something of great importance [ epiphany ] but because the mind presents feebleness, that sudden realization [ epiphany ], if not noted or written down for future consideration, will be forgotten ( usually after a night’s rest ) and that’s why he must have considered traveling useless. Our present day Hip Hop artists do have references to this issue :
Tekwun : Where the fuck am I going ? [- what is the use of my travels and exertion ? ]
Ed OG : The truth is easy to grasp, but hard to hold on to.
I am always reminded Greek philosophers like Heraclitus, Diogenes, and Socrates when I read these articles. They lived these meager lives of bare subsistence. Seneca may not fit the bill exactly, but he did commit suicide on command. I always wonder why no women lived like this in these times. No one would have stopped some woman from living on the beach hand-to-mouth like Diogenes, preaching virtues, but it seems to have never happened. Idealism and principal are truly masculine traits.
Hipparchia may fit the bill, both she and her husband were Cynics and lived in poverty.
My favorite ancient tale involving women and death: Phaedo. On the day of his death Socrates asked that his hysterical wife be removed from his cell so he could relish true conversation for a few moments more with his devoted students. “Histrionics”? Nobody has time for that…
The best part is when all the men start crying for him and he says something like ” men why do you cry? I removed the women from the room to avoid melodramatics”. Haha classic
It took 5 or 6 readings of Phaedo until I was able to see the humor. Easily, Euthyphro had me in stitches on the second reading. I still know there is great humor in The Statesman, but I just can’t pinpoint why, yet…
A warm welcome to you Edmont Dantes to the manopshere. I wih you further enlightment on the manosphere. I too was impressed by the red pill story of Monte Cristo. Cheers !
Exactly. When you read those ancient guys, like Plato and Seneca, they point out that women don’t have the virtues that make men masculine. And they criticize the men who act/think like women: The guys who don’t have the Stoic values.
The concepts where Stoicism came from existed in the ancient Greeks long before Zeno put them into words and a teacheable format.
“When you read those ancient guys, like Plato and Seneca, they
point out that women don’t have the virtues that make men masculine.”
Eer keep in mind that Plato probably never touched a woman in his life and Seneca was the adviser to emperor Nero who burned his own city.
I still say it all comes down to Rand and Locke
I’d like to read why?
See above mate
..expand..
Locke’s empiricism defines how we truly know things and can understand the world around us. Also, his idea that man is born with certain rights helps us understand our worth as human beings.
Rand’s philosophy takes our empirical understanding of the universe (without an acknowledgement of debt to Locke in my opinion) and rightfully so, puts the individual at the center of it. When a man truly gets an understanding of his rational self interest, he can make the proper decisions to have the best quality of life possible.
I’m not trying to get all contrarian here. I like to read other folks just like anyone else and this was interesting reading. Just making the statement that ultimately, it’s really two people who I derive my thinking from.
thanks…these two sound like they would make good subjects for articles….I think the articles like the one Roosh has written above and those that look back on history – quite often by Quintus Curtius – are some of the most valuable on this site.
Interesting. I do agree Locke plays a crucial role in Modern man’s understanding about what one reasonably can and can not fight for. However, I must disagree with your opinion on Rand… “Contrarian” can be very healthy at times.
All cruelty springs from weakness – Seneca
Roosh, thanks for taking the time to pick out all of these excerpts for us to read. Was planning to go to the bookstore soon to pick up some Epictetus may have to throw in some Seneca now as well.
Interesting intellectual tidbits. Seppuku was also an honorable way to go after making a mistake in Shogunate Japan. What would be the honorable way to go nowadays? Staying alive long enough to pay for three baby mamas and all fifteen of their bastard nuggets? For me the honorable way to go is to say “fuck you” to all of them and move on to a more relaxed part of the world, say one of the tens of thousands of Polynesian islands where it can be you, nature, and a tribe of young nubiles. Where every day you could live or die by your own hands, what it means to be human.
he was really negative on traveling. He didn’t write this under the context of our strong need to flee American women…
if you ‘plant a tree’ in America its likely youll be paying alimony payments forever. maybe a wandering plant is better for some
this is the type of sentimental shit that nudges men towards marriage.
“he was really negative on traveling. He didn’t write this under the context of our strong need to flee American women.”
I was thinking the same thing, but the world is different today and I suspect if Seneca was alive today, he’d be singing a slightly different tune to deal with the current state of affairs. But I find the majority of his philosophies are pretty timeless.
i think he is talking about travel that is superficial..you know the people that do a week in Thailand, a day in Laos, a day in Cambodia and two days in Malaysia with a stop over in India who then thinks it makes them a enlightened citizen of the world.
Travel where time is spent absorbing the surroundings and culture and having meaningful conversation with people takes more time and is not done with the intention of ‘ticking’ off half a dozen countries in a week or two…
Roosh, did you consider Manchester for your tour?
More and more see London as a city state
or Warsaw…
Tom Wolfe wrote “A Man in Full” which is a modern novel about Stoic virtue and resilience.
An excellent article which comes at a good time for me. At the moment I am like a sailing ship at sea with the sails down drifting wherever the sea takes me and regretting past financial mistakes that can’t be rectified, while in reality still living a good life but feeling sorry for myself. No direction but seeming to think and wish for something to happen while not making an effort to take action to make things happen.
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I don’t think the fact that Seneca was a rich man means he did not practice what he preached. Stoicism is not about being poor or living in abject poverty, but a way of dealing with whatever life throws at you without drowning yourself in sorrows about what could have been, what should have been, your current situation in life and worrying about the future.
It seems you can be a good stoic whether rich or poor.
To take your quote Seneca says that here……”The place one’s in, though, doesn’t make any contribution to peace of mind: it’s the spirit that makes everything agreeable to oneself. I’ve seen for myself people sunk in gloom in cheerful and delightful country houses, and people in completely secluded surroundings who looked as if they were run off their feet.The rich person can still feel sorry for themselves and fear losing what they have, or regret not having as even more than they have. Rich and poor alike should accept that nothing is forever and what they have now, whether its wealth, health, social standing or friendships and family can be lost at any time.”
The quotes about travelling is one I think about often. There is a modern day habit to try and visit and ‘tick off’ as many countries as possible as though it’s a competition to visit as many places as possible. Now travelling is a good thing if it is done in the right way, allowing time to immerse yourself in the surroundings and people and take in and absorb what is going on. It’s not a competition and should not be treated as such. Quite often people do a year or six months of rapid travel and then hang their hat on it for the rest of their lives – thinking that it demonstrates how educated, enlightened and well travelled and independent they are.
These lyrics by George Harrison sum it up for me. It’s possible to travel and still learn nothing. It’s also possible to travel in the right way – and more slowly – and learn and experience so much.
“The Inner Light”
Without going out of my door
I can know all things on Earth
Without looking out of my window
I could know the ways of Heaven
The farther one travels
The less one knows
The less one really knows
Without going out of your door
You can know all things on Earth
Without looking out of your window
You could know the ways of Heaven
The farther one travels
The less one knows
The less one really knows
Arrive without travelling
See all without looking
Do all without doing
Finally, I am an atheist and not religious in any way but there is always a quote in the bible I remember. It says something about the fact that on your day of judgement if you were living a good life then you will get into heaven. Even if every day before had been bad. It reminds me of the quote above from Seneca about how everything is complete and whole if you leave life (die) in the right way. They’re both ways of saying however your life has been so far that if you lead a good life from now it far outweighs everything that has gone before.
I think I will buy this book.
Yep, Seneca handled his money well, but he knew better than anyone that it didn’t shield him from fate. In his epistles Lucilius he has a section on how to treat slaves. In this section he is quite clear that money can not and does not help you against fate.
When the travails of life become overwhelming and the pressure unbearable I force myself to ask the following from my Creator : ” what I am to learn from this? ”
Great book recommendation, I think I will order it
Excellent!
The key to understanding of the stoic philosophy is that if you reduce your expectations for happiness in this life, then these very low expectations might well be met or even exceeded.
This is why Seneca was critical about the urge for travelling. When you visit new places you always do it with high expectations about them. It applies to game to – have low expectations towards women.
“It applies to game to – have low expectations towards women.”
Agree. I believe as men get a little older, wiser or learn more about women then this becomes a little clearer as time wears on. Women (no matter the age) are pretty much the same.
The smartphone, alone, is a great indicator of how all of these women are the same.
There are many others signs and signals but I think the introduction of the smartphone gives any man a red flag (caution ahead).
The gist I get is that we are just corks on the water and should be content with that. To stretch the analogy, anyone who thinks of themselves as “red pill” would reject this in favour of Neo’s view on fate.
How do you think Western capitalism would be affected if Americans adopted Seneca’s philosophies? It seems that his teachings would lessen the anxiety and egotistical emotions that drive Consumerism. Moreover, Consumerism is also driven by apathy and boredom. People with vision create. People without it consume.
Do you say the status quo of western capitalism? It’s hardly true capitalism. The west is controlled by keynesian thought, which puts emphasis on consumerism. Laissez-faire capitalism, on other hand, encourages innovation, which is only possible by investing saved money. About your question, yes, I think consumerism is driven by pleasure and Stoicism would help.
Good point. Capitalism in theory is great. Maybe getting away from Consumerism would get us closer to its ideal form. Or maybe it would force us to innovate a new and improved economic system.
Marx much? How about let people decide for themeselves with the wages they earn.
And what are the wages a slave earns.
Wonderful words which have inspired writers ever since.
The Crowd: “What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think.”- Emerson
Travel: “Learn from me, if not by my precepts, at least by my example, how dangerous is the acquirement of knowledge and how much happier that man is who believes his native town to be the world, than he who aspires to become greater than his nature will allow.”- Shelley
Happiness and Suffering: “…there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” – Shakespeare
Death: “There’s a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, ’tis not to come. If it be not to come, it will be now. If it be not now, yet it will come—the readiness is all.”- Shakespeare
Misfortune: “If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster/And treat those two impostors just the same;” – Kipling
It is fantastic to see articles of this kind.
Got to be careful with Greek/Roman writings. Much of them are written in the eyes of a pedophile homosexual
One of my favorites posts here ever. Me and Seneca see things alike.
Thanks Roosh
Not quite how I see the world but damn impressive words.
Thanks Roosh. Stoicism is the answer to regaining our masculinity. And it’s easier and cheaper then any of the self-help books, seminars, counseling sessions, etc. that only put out garbage anyway.
Properly followed as a lifestyle, game and all the rest just comes naturally.
Excellent article. The influence of the great Quintus is present. The influence of the intellectual, clear-seer and truth seeker. Thank you Roosh, for creating ROK for giving males all over the world a chance for improvement a chance to change themselves. As you gave us that chance, we will take advantage of it and by changing ourselves, we will change the world. I wish that the Masculine Atmosphere would expand to greater hieghts.
Is this sound advice`? http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Stoic
In case anyone here is interested in what the Stoics actually thought,
here’s two lectures by Stoic philosopher Musonius Rufus entitled
“That women too should study philosophy” and “Should daughters receive the same training as sons?”
https://sites.google.com/site/thestoiclife/the_teachers/musonius-rufus/lectures/03
https://sites.google.com/site/thestoiclife/the_teachers/musonius-rufus/lectures/04
And if you were wondering, his answer in both cases is yes.
In case anyone here is interested in what the Stoics actually thought,
here are two lectures by Stoic philosopher Musonius Rufus entitled
“That women too should study philosophy” and “Should daughters receive the same training as sons?”
https://sites.google.com/site/thestoiclife/the_teachers/musonius-rufus/lectures/03
https://sites.google.com/site/thestoiclife/the_teachers/musonius-rufus/lectures/04
And if you were wondering, his answer in both cases is yes.